Torrens Families
Genealogy
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107 Waverley Place
N.Y.C
March 4th, 1919
Dear Mr Torrance
I am trusting that you have not censured me too severely for my delay in replying to your very good letter. A press of affairs is my excuse. I was of course greatly interested in your letter and I shall be glad to execute any commission in this matter, if you wish me to do so. I think, however that you should hear this report before taking further steps.
I had received your letter but had not even read it before Mr Anjou called upon me. I remembered having met him when I was in the employ of the Lenox Library sixteen years ago. I did not know him except as one of the many genealogists who used this library but so far as I know he is as good as any of them. But for your purposes I received little information from him during the interview. He would not allow me even a glimpse of his record on the ground that we would then be in possession of the very thing he has to sell. He did however forget a paper on which he had jotted down an outline of his record. I returned this paper to him when I discovered it two days later. I made a copy of it which I enclose.
I elicited at least two facts from him during our interview. One was that he knew nothing of Aaron Torrance and had never heard of him - although he did not say so. In returning his lost papers to him I again asked him about Aaron and received the enclosed reply. A second fact, secured not only from the interview but from his notes, was that the greater part of his information is comprised of names of Torrance previous to their emigration from Ireland.
As the matter now stands I would not feel justified in concluding the purchase for you, considering his terms. If I were acting for myself I should feel that truth would be more securely served by going myself to the sources or by sending an agent of whom I had more personal knowledge. Mr Anjou's terms are, he tells me, to demand payment unless the client can prove that he is wrong. This would be impossible without personal sight of his sources or through another agent after all. I should want to verify all information received. This attitude exists, I suppose, as a result of my contact with professional genealogists in the library years ago. There is such wide opportunity for mistakes to occur and wrong connections to be made when the element of a money consideration enters the lists.
If you still feel like taking a chance after reading this and wish me to buy the material for you I will do so with a sight draft, as you suggested - upon receipt of instructions from you to that effect.
I note from Mr Anjou's data, that one of the children of Robert and one of the children of Jane located at Chester Pa. This was the residence of many of my branch also. The fact that they settled at the same place would also suggest kinship.
I shall be much interested to hear from you what your decision is after receiving my information and if there is any way in which I can be of service to you do not fail to let me know.
Apropos of your researches in the Peck genealogy, I suppose you have seen the printed volume on the family.
I do not know whether, in the compilation of your history, you attempt to correspond with all persons bearing the name. Although this seems rather a large undertaking you doubtless use a circular form. With the idea that perhaps you do engage in such painstaking details I enclose a list of those bearing the name in this city as supplied by the telephone book. I have never met any of them. About two years ago I received several friendly messages from a Mr Torrance, I believe his initials were *J.E., of this city. He wrote to tell me that he was an old man, much interested in his family history and asking me to call upon him at his law office on Lower Broadway. I delayed doing this for about six months - until a year ago last fall and upon arrival at his office I found he had died a few days before. Mr Anjou told me the other day that he had made or begun his searches because of this Mr. Torrance's interest.
I have now to acknowledge your other most courteous and interesting letter which I received several months ago. My reason for seeming so neglectful of it was because I had no information at that time. May I now convey my appreciation to Mrs Torrance for having given a good report of one of my printed plays.
With greetings and my very best wishes.
Sincerely yours
Ridgeley Torrance.
Footnote by RJT 22nd March, 1999
* Script initials could be GE. There seems no suitable candidate in RMT or JST.
107 Waverley Place
N.Y.C
April 7th, 1919
Dear Mr Torrance
Illness has prevented me from replying earlier to your very interesting communications.
And now, since you have left the matter to my judgement I must tell you that I have withheld your letter to Mr Anjou and I still retain it. I have done this because I sincerely believe that he has not the goods and that a further pursuit in his direction would only result in a tiresome and sterile unpleasantness.
During my interview with him I gave him every opportunity to afford us some definite knowledge of his treasures. He has not done so.
Of course I do not want to lose any valuable information any more than you do but I think we are taking no chance by going no further with him. We know how he became possessed of the details which he has disclosed and we know how faulty ?? those are.
Believe me however to be entirely at your service and I shall await your further word regarding the matter.
In addition let me say that if there is any other direction in which I might serve you I shall be glad to do so.
In regard to the ancestry of Lucy Peck it occurs to me that it might possibly be worth your while to have it searched among the local histories and genealogies in the N.Y. Public Library. Those collections of the Library are now in charge of a Mr Henry Strippel, a young man who years ago was my assistant. I know him to be thoroughly honest and painstaking. Perhaps if you wrote to him offering to pay him for a successful result he would undertake a search. I have not sen him for a number of years and I don't know whether he does engage in such tasks but it might be worth while to ask him.
With renewed good wishes and with the Spring greeting
Sincerely yours
Ridgeley Torrence
April 17 1919
Dear Sir
In further reply to your favour of Jan. 28, 1919, I will furnish you a MS.-copy of the History of the Torrance Family, containing your branch of the family, and the ancestry of Hugh Torrance (wife Eleanor), parents of Robert, Thomas, Jane, Martha, Mollie and Hugh; also of Sergeant Hugh Torrance, of Samuel and Torrance, of Salisbury, Mass., and of Lucy Peck, wife of Robert Torrance, all referred to in our correspondence, for the sum of $950., payable upon delivery of satisfactory proofs of connections.
If acceptable, kindly sign and return the duplicate of this offer, and oblige.
Yours Truly Gustav Anjou
Accepted
............................
P.S. Although I could not see the advantage, I had no objection to see my old friend, Ridgeley Torrence, as you have suggested in your letter of Febr.19, having known him for about 16 years, or ever since he was engaged as an assistant to the clerk in Lenox Library. I understand, however, that you do not know him at all, and that your cousin only met him, while in the Library. As Mr. R.T. is a well known poet, and is not a genealogist, or a lawyer, I fail to see that his talking with me on the subject of the Torrance ancestry could be of any value whatsoever, in comparison with the opinion of the numerous men of high position, wealth and influence, who have been buyers of my MSS. for nearly three decennials.
Moreover, the MS. was to be sent to you in advance of payment, due on certain terms only, and even if Mr. R.T. had had a chance to see, and thoroughly criticise the MS., which was not done, of course, it would not influence your decision, I suppose, until you also had read the MS.
Hence, if you are willing to pay the price, I see as little reason as Mr.R.T. why you should not secure it, on the very reasonable terms offered.
I must confess, however, that it is not material to me whether you do or not, but it is of some importance to me to know your decision, whatever it is, as I would like to settle up some of these delayed matters before I leave for Europe, on a prolonged trip, three years or more. Those who do not avail themselves of this opportunity to secure, at my risk, material which I happen to have, cannot, at least, blame me afterwards. Mr.R.T. writes me: "It was gratifying to se you again. Hope you will be able to supply Mr. Torrance with the material he is looking for." I do not know, of course, for what sort of material you are looking for; if for anything else than indicated above, you may let me know what it is. But, I doubt very much it would be time to do so, as I am nearly ready after I have finished up a few more orders, now on hand, here.
Yours Truly
Gustav Anjou
Xenia
Ohio
May 31st, 1919
Dear Mr Torrance
I received your last letter about the third of this month but I have never heard from Mr Anjou. To be sure I have not been in New York continuously since the fifteenth and on the twenty third I came out here to Ohio but at least he evidently never addressed me by letter or it would have been forwarded and if he called he did not leave his card.
I have thought best not to communicate with him further unless I hear from him.
I expect to remain here in Ohio for a number of weeks but I shall be glad to serve you in any way I can, either here or in New York.
With my best wishes
Sincerely yours
Ridgeley Torrence
July 14, 1919
Mr J W Kernohan
Seaford
Park Road
Belfast, Ireland
Dear Sir
Your letter under date of December 27th, 1918, to Mr. Hugh Torrence was by him forwarded to me.
In order to save time, I have decided to communicate directly with you.
As you may not have them, I am sending you herewith copies of the old Torrance letters in my possession. They form an excellent basis from which to search.
I have no further information regarding the descendants of Hugh and Elenor, excepting that I have a complete account of all the descendants of Robert Torrance of Middlebury, who was my great grandfather. You will note that he wrote to Ireland under date of October 29th, 1803. He kept a copy of that letter, and I have that copy in his own writing, and I have the original of all the replies thereto, enclosed as above stated.
The Irish letters give a pretty good history of the family at that time.
There are three distinct lines of Torrance's in this country, and the original emigrants of each of those migrated from County Londonderry in the latter half of the eighteenth century. My great grandfather came to America in 154. He landed at Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. His eldest sister Jean, married a Torrance, whether of kin or not, we do not know.
In Robert's letter of date the 16th of June, 1804, to his Uncle he says. "My father requests that if you know anything concerning his brothers, etc." We know definitely that soon after his arrival in this country. my grandfather went to live at Woodbury, Connecticut, and thence to Salisbury, Connecticut, and later and about 1770 went to Middlebury, Vermont.
In Cothren's History of Ancient Woodbury, Vol. 1. page 786 and included in the list of soldiers in the Revolutionary War who went from Woodbury, I find the name of "Torrance, Thomas; wounded in the 'Danbury Alarm' of April 27th, 1777, in the thigh." Torrance, Capt. Samuel. Both of these Torrance's married and have many honourable descendants now living. None of these descendants have any knowledge of their ancestors back of their Woodbury ancestors. It is possible, therefore, that the Samuel and Thomas, mentioned in Cothren's History, are the identical Samuel and Thomas mentioned in Robert's letter, and the brothers in-law of Jean, my great grandfathers eldest sister. It would be exceedingly interesting to prove a degree on consanguinuity between Jean and her (Torrance) husband, as that would definitely connect two existing lines of Torrance's in this country.
The mere fact that my great grandfather went to Woodbury to live, where we know that the Samuel and Thomas mentioned in Cothren's History had previously settled is strong evidence, (although not proof) of their identity.
I am also enclosing a line of Torrence's descended from Sergeant Hugh Torrance, who was a sergeant in the British Army during the Siege of Derry. The diagram gives all of the known data concerning Sergeant Hugh and his children. It is noticeable that the same names follow down this line of Torrance's. There is one evidence of consanguinuity between the different lines of Torrance's here which I will note at this point.
Nearly every Torrance which I have ever met has a large frame, clear colouring and a tendency towards a broad square face, and fairly large ears.
There is a striking resemblance between some of the present living descendants of Sergeant Hugh and some descendants of my great grandfather, Robert.
I am anxious to prove, if possible, what I apprehend is true, viz. that Sergeant Hugh Torrance, and my great grandfather were blood relations. They evidently lived in the same locality in Ireland: the names Hugh, Elenor and James are in the descending lines of each family, and it is my recollection that I was told that Hugh, son of Sergeant Hugh, born 1701, settled first in Chester, Pennsylvania, which locality seems to have been the destination of residence at about the same time of John Torrance, (see postscript to old Irish letter) son of Jean, and nephew of my great grandfather, Robert: Robert Torrance my great grandfather and Hugh, son of Sergeant Hugh, a remarkable coincidence if they were not related.
The third, and probably the largest branch of the Torrance family in the United States, is descended from Aaron Torrance and Susannah Torrance who came to America from County Derry sometime between 1758 and 1770, and they also landed in Philadelphia. They had four children:
1, Joseph Torrence, born in Franklin County, 1751
2, Samuel Torrence, born in Franklin County, 1755
3, John Torrence, born in Franklin County, 1758
4, David Torrence, born in Franklin County, 1762
They seem to have spelled the name Torrence. using "e" instead of "a". They were Scotch-Irish Presbyterians. It would be interesting to ascertain if thereby any record of Aaron's family in County Derry, and if there by such s record to look for any ties of consanguinuity with Robert or Sergeant Hugh.
I am sending you enclosed exchange for twenty pounds. I assume that this sum will pay your time and expenses sufficient to ascertain whether there is any records in existence in County Derry of the families. In the event that you are able to find sufficient records to warrant a careful and thorough search, I will be glad to be so advised and I will send you a further sum to cover the service and expenses therefor, and I would be glad to have you estimate the sum required to make the search.
I had intended to write this letter several months ago, but through a peculiar train of circumstances, a man by the name of Gustave Anjou of New York City wrote me a letter claiming that he could supply me with the ancestry of Robert Torrance of Middlebury back seven generations and through the seventeenth century. He also stated his ability to furnish proof of a consanguinuity between Robert Torrance and Sergeant Hugh Torrance.
There is, at this time, in New York City a gentleman by the name of Ridgley Torrance, who was formerly librarian of the New York City library, and who is now a writer of drama, poetry, etc. of considerable repute, and is descended from the Aaron Torrance line.
I replied to Mr Anjou that if he would furnish the information claimed to the satisfaction of Mr. Ridgley Torrance to whom I referred him, I would buy his data. It seems that Mr. Ridgley Torrance was personally acquainted with Mr AnJou, the acquaintance dating back some twenty odd years when Mr. Torrance was librarian, as above stated, and that acquaintance had not impressed Mr. Torrance with Mr. AnJou's reliability. Mr. Anjou declined to allow Mr. Torrance to examine his data, and after considerable correspondence I have decided that Mr. AnJou is so unreliable as that any data he might have would have to be checked up at considerable expense before I would be justified in using it. This expense, added to the sum of money demanded by him for the data was so large that I have decided to refer the whole proposition to you for examination along the lines above indicated, rather than deal with Mr. AnJou. I think the foregoing covers the proposition sufficiently in detail for you to make a preliminary examination and report the results to me, as above indicated.
Expressing the hope that you will be able to report successfully in the premises, I beg to remain,
Yours very respectfully (no signature - carbon copy of letter)
July 20th 1919
I am today writing to Mr J W Kernohan at Belfast, enclosing him copies of the old Irish letter and making a remittance to him, as suggested in his letter to you, which you kindly forwarded to me.
The delay in communicating with Mr. Kernohan has been occasioned by the following:
Several months ago a man by the name of Gustav Anjou of New York City wrote me a letter claiming that he could supply me with the ancestry of Robert Torrance, formerly of Mayghole, back seven generations and into the middle of the seventeenth century. He also stated his ability to furnish proof of consanguinuity between Robert Torrance and Sergeant Hugh Torrance, who was the immigrant ancestor of a distinct line of Torrance's not connected, so fat as we know, with the descendants of Robert.
There is, at this time, in New York City, a man by the name of Ridgley Torrance, who was formerly Librarian of New York City, and who is now a writer of Dramas, poetry, etc. of considerable repute, and who is descended from an immigrant from County Derry named Aaron Torrance.
I replied to Mr. Anjou that if he could furnish the information stated to the satisfaction of Mr. Ridgley Torrance, to whom I referred him, I would buy his data. It seems that Mr. Ridgley Torrance was personally acquainted with Mr. Anjou, the acquaintance dating back some twenty odd years when Mr. Torrance was Librarian, as above stated and that acquaintance had not impressed Mr. Torrance with Mr. Anjou's liability. Mr. Anjou declined to allow Mr. Torrance to examine his data, and after considerable correspondence I decided that any data he might have would have to be thoroughly checked up at considerable expense before I would be justified in using it.
This expense, added to the sum of money demanded by him for his data was so large that finally, and after this long delay, I have decided to refer the whole matter to Mr. Kernohan for his investigation rather than deal with Mr. Anjou.
So much time has elapsed since Mr. Kernohan wrote you from Belfast that I am sending you this letter thinking that in case he id now now in Belfast, that you might know where he was and advise him of the fact that a letter is at Seaford, Park Road, Belfast, for him.
Much has happened since we exchanged letters. It is good again to be at peace, I sincerely hope that you sand your family are well and prosperous.
With kindest personal regards, believe me
Sincerely and cordially yours.
1888-1918
Compiler of the Ulster County. N.Y. Probate Records.
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